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Re: Just got the D300..... [Re: James Morrissey] #11747
12/06/07 08:45 AM
12/06/07 08:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
Tony Bynum Offline
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Tony Bynum  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
no, nothing works, really, it sucks. Nikon just told me yesterday, "it's not the camera's it's the batteries."

Okay, this is where I part company with salesmen. I'm a photographer not a BS artist. Are they expecting me to say, "oh, well, if it's just the battery I'll get over it." Dont pee on my shoes and then tell me it's raining.

In any event they told me to keep the batteries warm and change them often. HEY NIKON, THAT DONT WORK - DONT PATRONIZE ME, DONT YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT? I have 6 batteries and swapped them out but for some reason it did not make much difference. Sure, i got a couple clicks, but what am I going to do ask my subjects to hold still until I get my gear up to operating temps or change the battery every three minutes - heck the cameras stopped working before the cold battery got warm in my shirt pocket!

as you can tell, i'm still upset by this. I just cant believe it. I must find a better solution.

BTW, i even shoved two hand warmes inside my d200's grip right next to one of the batteries and it did not work.

Keep the batteries warm, okay, but i need more than about three minutes of power, give me a break.

I have one more thing to try. I'm going to use AA's in the grips and see how that works.

Sorry for being so rude, but i'm very mad about this. I WILL DROP nikon if I find that canons can operate at least for a few minutes in the cold!

I'm going to give the new olympus a run and see how it performs. . .

Update: nikon is sending me it's ONLY Blimp case (insulated cover for the camera made to deaden the sound, but it may work for cold as well and at least help get a bit more life from the camera) for a try out, they said I cant buy it because it's the only one NIKON has. . . What. . . ? I'm serious. . .

Re: Just got the D300..... [Re: Tony Bynum] #11748
12/07/07 11:41 PM
12/07/07 11:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Eden (no really!)
J
jamesdak Offline
Old hand
jamesdak  Offline
Old hand
J

Joined: Jul 2006
Eden (no really!)
Tony,

Just checking in to see if you found any resolution. Looks like you tried the only other thing I've done in the past. I used to have to shoot my old Minolta 7xi with a handwarmer rubberbanded to the body by the battery but I see you tried that. You know back in the day I was an electronic tech in the Army. Sometimes a bad solder joint would fail in extreme cold as the metal contracted. I'd keep pushing Nikon for resolution on these. I can't count the number of times we fixed devices just be reflowing the solder on circuit cards or connectors. Heck, even in my current job with a defense contractor we utilize environmental chambers to test devices for all kinds of conditions.

As I mentioned before, my 30D handled -20 for hours last winter shooting birds and such. I was actually a bit surprised at how well the one battery (no grip then) held up. Any problems I had were related to me breathing onto the frozen body. In fact on at least two occasions the rear thumb wheel went out from my breathing on them. This caused problems for me in adjusting exposure compensation.

I don't know much about Nikons but is it possible to power them via an external battery pack that could be kept warm inside a jacket? I know that can be restrictive but it's just an idea. One other thought, if you are using a grip with both of them is the performance better without it? Even though we would expect the grips to perform better with dual batteries (assuming they are like my Canon's) maybe the grips are failing in the cold, not the bodies themselves. My 30D's grip seems much lighter in contruction than the actual body and maybe they just don't insulate the battery as well, just a thought.

Jim

Re: Just got the D300..... [Re: jamesdak] #11749
12/10/07 01:18 PM
12/10/07 01:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Colorado,USA
D
Darren Rowley Offline
Wanderer
Darren Rowley  Offline
Wanderer
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Joined: Apr 2007
Colorado,USA
Roman (and others with the D300), how do the RAW files look to you? There is a lot of discussion out there that the D300 jpegs are amazing but RAW with no NR is very noisy. What is your experience and could you make available some RAW's at various iso's? I do expect RAW to have more noise than jpeg, but with NR turned off in the camera and in RAW converters, I'm wondering how things turn out. I've also seen ISO 100 with less detail than ISO 200 in jpeg, but I'm curious how iso 100 RAW looks compared to iso 200.

I'm looking for real world results of real photography with the D300. I'm tired of looking at side by side comparisons of shots from different brands. I mean, the last time I was shooting a mountain stream there wasn't a teddy bear, or a kitchen table, or a bottle of vodka in my shot. Although, considering that some of my shots are out of focus might have been a result of vodka. lol!

I just want to know how the D300 handles this in and of itself and how it will effect my workflow once I get the D300. I don't want a comparison to any other camera, AT ALL. So, please, lets not turn this thread into Canon vs Nikon thread.

Re: Just got the D300..... [Re: Darren Rowley] #11750
12/10/07 03:21 PM
12/10/07 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
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DavidRamey Offline
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DavidRamey  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
ISO 200 would look better than ISO 100 since ISO 200 is the sensors native base. As far as the jpegs versus NEF, the jpegs are made from the NEF using the camera settings. The NEF being a raw format won't be using the camera settings. To judge the NEF vs jpeg, make sure that you use a raw convertor that shows the NEF using the camera settings. A lot of raw convertors do not use the camera settings when showing NEFS. As far as examples, there are plenty on the web from reputable professional photographers. You may want to check out D1scussion or NikonDigital.org. Those forums are more working professionals than amateurs and the info is generally rock solid.


David Ramey Photography
Re: Just got the D300..... [Re: jamesdak] #11751
12/10/07 09:28 PM
12/10/07 09:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Portland Oregon
RomanJohnston Offline OP
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RomanJohnston  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2005
Portland Oregon
Tony....you might want to read this thread....seems like it was performing like a champ for somone else at -30 Centegrade....

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25975849

Wondering if you have a bum camera?!?

Roman

Just got D300-4Tony [Re: Tony Bynum] #11752
12/11/07 11:40 AM
12/11/07 11:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Donner Summit, CA
glamson Offline
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glamson  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Donner Summit, CA
Quote:

I like my 300 but it like the d200 dont like the cold. both shut down in sub zero temps. fought it all weekend. I shoot wildlife mainly, and cant have this keep happening. with gas $$$ and my time, i'm wasting way too much time with dead equipment when it gets cold. . .

Lost the focus on the 70-200 vr afs and the camera would not even stay on after about 20 minutes in -10 degrees.

My f5, 90, 100 and d70, and d2h never had these problems. sure the batteries would not last, but at least they would work.

Both the 200 and the 300 just are not made to shoot in the conditions I shoot. my shooting partners d200 ran out of gas too. . .




Tony,

Roman may be right, you may have a defective D300. Here is another thread from a guy shooting successfully in pretty cold weather.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25973977

Re: Just got D300-4Tony [Re: glamson] #11753
12/11/07 06:11 PM
12/11/07 06:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
Tony Bynum Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tony Bynum  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
It's the camera, well, the batteries. I'm not suggesting that people are being less than truthful about their use of the d300 in the cold, but I know now that it's the batteries. Few people spend much time with their gear outside in sub zero. Most are out for a few minutes and then back to the car or buss, even fewer are using long lenses with VR like the 200-400, some retreat to a house or a building or, it's not quite as cold as they think it is. The bottom line is that each situation is different I'm sure humidity even plays some part.

I along with another world class cold weather photographer have been doing some extensive testing, and the results show that it's the enel3e batteries. His detailed battery test results first keyed me into doing more research.

Anyway, the enel3e's are almost useless after 1/2hour at -15 or below. At around zero they discharge to 12-15% in about 40 minutes. Also, the 200-400 afs vr has a good deal of draw. so couple zero battery life at -15 and a big draw from the 200-400 and whala, dead camera. . . Ive been able to replicate this both in real time and in the lab - well, the lab for the lab test is the deep freeze and the real time tests is the bush of glacier park and southern alberta.

Now that I'be got the bl3 door i'll test again with the enel4 and the aa alkalines. . . I'll bet I have a lot better luck with the enel4 battery, the enel3's just cant take negative temps for very long. . .

Re: Just got D300-4Tony [Re: Tony Bynum] #11754
12/11/07 06:20 PM
12/11/07 06:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Donner Summit, CA
glamson Offline
Veteran
glamson  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Feb 2006
Donner Summit, CA
Quote:

It's the camera, well, the batteries. I'm not suggesting that people are being less than truthful about their use of the d300 in the cold, but I know now that it's the batteries. Few people spend much time with their gear outside in sub zero. Most are out for a few minutes and then back to the car or buss, even fewer are using long lenses with VR like the 200-400, some retreat to a house or a building or, it's not quite as cold as they think it is.

I along with another world class cold weather photographer have been doing some extensive testing, and the results show that it's the enel3e batteries. His resultes first keyed me into doing more research.

Anyway, the enel3e's are almost useless after 1/2hour at -15 or below. At around zero they discharge to 12-15% in about 40 minutes. Also, the 200-400 afs vr has a good deal of draw. so couple zero battery life at -15 and a big draw from the 200-400 and whala, dead camera. . . Ive been able to replicate this both in real time and in the lab - well, the deep freeze with 10 different batteries.

Now that I'be got the bl3 door i'll test again with the enel4 and the aa alkalines. . .




Tony,

I guess I'm the guy you're describing in the first paragraph. I'm definitely looking for the car after about 10 minutes at sub zero.

Very interesting to hear about your battery research. I'm not surprised that the 3e's are fairly anemic. They never struck me at real powerhouses. I'm interested in what you find with the enel4 and the alkalines. Please post when you find out.

Thanks,
Geo

Re: Just got D300-4Tony [Re: Tony Bynum] #11755
12/11/07 06:32 PM
12/11/07 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
D
DavidRamey Offline
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DavidRamey  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
Tony,
Did you try the ENEL-3 and compare it to the ENEL-3e?


David Ramey Photography
Re: Just got D300-4Tony [Re: DavidRamey] #11756
12/11/07 06:34 PM
12/11/07 06:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
Tony Bynum Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tony Bynum  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
I have not tried the older enel3's although Dave makes a great point. I'll go throw them in the deep freeze right now!

I'm not really speaking of anyone in particular, but I do have enough cold weather shooting time that I've realized that my problems never ocure until I'm out for at least an hour. In and out of the truck or the like seems to add just enough warmth to keep things moving along. So i'm as guilty as anyone but more recently I've been spending extended periods outside, gear fully exposed to the snow, wind and sub zero temps. . .

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