I just got a note back from the breeder saying she doesn't release the puppies until after their 10-week shots.

That's on one hand, understandable, but on the other it cuts a little too deep into their critical period of socialization for me.

Not a complete deal killer, but not the best either. We'll see.

She's about 5 hours away, but I may try to go visit this week.

The puppy is better off being socialized with the mother/littermates than with new homes as a rule. I won't let any go until 9w. I am guessing that breeder is using the newer, later vaccination protocal and making sure that they have adequate immunity before releasing them. As long as they are being exposed to things at the breeders home, 10w is not late or missing any critical socialization time with you.

The dogs that grow up the worst are the ones given over at 5-6w of age. They miss critical time with their dam. Having had a litter here and watching what Cinnamon did with them, I understand now. There is no human who can do what she did.

I promise my home is better socialization than any other home. Between my kids, the kids who come in and out, the dogs here and having the dam with the puppies until they leave, no home can give what I can.

A puppy will bond with its new owner pretty much at any time. you have a small window for the dams to really teach the puppies dog manners

I'd be happy taking a puppy from your home or Jim's home because I know the lengths you go to to socialize.

I'm not so comfortable with "just anyone" like that though.

Of course, this breeder may very well go out of her way to socialize as well, but I won't know that until I talk to her, meet the pups & dogs and talk to a bunch of other folks.


On vaccinations, part of my dog trainer apprentice program involves studying vaccinations as well as critical periods of socialization. The latest research shows that puppies from properly vaccinated dams are much better protected than previously believed, which allows them to be socialized publicly much earlier than before.

The trouble with the previously accepted protocols is that the keep puppies "sequestered" well beyond the first and most critical socialization period.

In addition to the fluffy corgis, we're considering another sheltie. There is one breeder that has a 15 week old sheltie left from a litter, but it is well known that they don't do any socialization, so unfortunately, that one is pretty much out.

If I'm going to get a dog that isn't already being well socialized by week 9, then I might as well get another rescue as the problems are about the same.

Your right, you really just don't know how a dog is socialized unless you know them. The only thing mine are not socialized to is cats, because I do not have any. I had puppies leave from here and live fine with cats.

Mine start going outside when they start eating gruel. They aren't going to get any different germs from my yard than they are my floors. I want them to be on carpet, hardwood floors, rocks and grass by the time they are 4 weeks.

I do early neurologic stimulation http://ahimsadogtraining.com/handouts/early_neurological_stimulation_en.pdf Which may or not be beneficial, but, I do it anyhow. I vacuum around the their box, the TV is going so they hear that, the kids are screaming and they have friends over. So, there is no lack in experiences and stuff like that

I have to say one of the best things ever was just letting Cinnamon take care of them. She picked the most dominant puppy and she would roll it over and over if she felt it was getting out of line. It was slightly disturbing to watch. When one would go to its new home, the next most dominant would get the treatment. It was an interesting thing to see.

I can't wait to have a litter of puppies again. Dottie has achieved all the titles I wanted her to achieve and I think I have gotten closer to a dog for her. Brings back in one of her ancestors that was an amazing dog

Yep, and several other surfaces too like rubber and sand.

Those of us who learn & train together play "pass the puppy" as much as possible.

The last two trials I've done, I've been wearing my air-cast boot and there have been three dogs totally freaked out by it. One is a 15 week sheltie (brother of the one still available) and the other two are older. So, we started with me standing still and walking the dog by and moved closer and closer and moved to putting a treat on top of my foot so the dogs would take it.

The puppy is totally fine with it now and the other two dogs are better.

In our house, Marion Louise does the dominance training and Cassidy Ann does the nurturing. It's fascinating to watch Marion take on the girl puppies and drop them and then hump them. She never uses her mouth on them but she makes sure they know that she's not to be trifled with. Not bad for a 13-year old.

Cassidy lets them know she's the queen in the house but gives them lots of licks and only growls when they really deserve it. She's teaching Moxie now letting her play with her when she shows respect but turning it off the second Moxie tries to treat Cassidy like another puppy. The boys are useless . They think Moxie is the cutest thing they've ever seen and all they want to do is play with her. Soon. She's now 40 lbs. at 14 weeks.

I'm with Julie in terms of when we start the socialization but, frankly, it actually starts with children, neighbors and prospective owners when the eyes/ears open at 14 days. We make sure people sanitize themselves before they handle the pups but nothing is better than having them handled by as many people as possible as they start developing their social skills. Like Julie, we start taking them outside when they start the weaning process at 4 - 4.5 weeks. But by then, they've met most of the Central Florida community and are pretty comfortable being handled by kids as well as adults.

Jim, I just shot two Sheltie Specialties this weekend and while I love the breed, the pups can be a little skittish for my taste. Because the show dogs are shown natural with free-bait stacking instead of hand-stacking, the dogs tend to be a little hand-shy. Just my observation and by no means universal. But I tend to prefer Corgis in terms of temperament.

Our pups are trained to turn on the Tivo when it's time to record a show. They tend to watch a lot of bad TV during the formative weeks. Sensory stimulation is part of our plan as well. They need to be exposed to noises and be comfortable around noisy environments. Especially if they're going to be a show dog but the training is good for all dogs. BTW, Rotties have notoriously weak auto-immune systems so our vaccination protocol is 5 weeks, 8 weeks and 12 weeks but we pull a titre at 8 weeks and every litter we've ever had was positive for Parvo immunity at 8 weeks so we're pretty comfortable giving them lots of exposure from 8 weeks of age on.

Puppies are great. I absolutely adore them. But if we didn't breed, I'd only look at Rescues. There are so many of them and there are only a few really great homes. When I look at Marion Louise, I am so happy we took her in. She has filled our home with love and with laughter. I simply could not love any dog any more than I love Marion Louise.

Jim